tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post1505972407640290195..comments2024-03-28T02:30:08.913-04:00Comments on Not Just Movies: Brian De Palma: The UntouchablesJakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09078001374402400232noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-25630699611182603622011-06-05T16:52:58.801-04:002011-06-05T16:52:58.801-04:00Craig, it sounds like you work or live near the Au...Craig, it sounds like you work or live near the Austin University of Texas, where they have the DeNiro collection? I really want to go visit that collection.<br /><br />I think I read this in one of Art Linson's books, but Mamet was kind of done mentally with THE UNTOUCHABLES once filming began, and Linson and De Palma often had trouble getting him to do rewrites. De Palma solved one problem in which Mamet either refused to or avoided rewriting (or adding) by inventing and filming a virtually silent scene in which Nitti lets Capone know about Malone's death while Capone is at the opera-- none of Mamet's great dialogue in that scene. And of course, the whole "Odessa Steps" sequence was developed overnight by De Palma when the budget would not allow them to film the sequence as written, and in the location they had planned. Instead of moving trains and helicopter shots, Linson told De Palma they could only afford the stairs, some extras, and some guns. And a big clock.<br /><br />I just happened to pick up a book off my shelf this morning called "It Don't Worry Me" by Ryan Gilbey, in which he devotes a chapter each to several "revolutionary" filmmakers of the seventies, including De Palma. At the end of his chapter on De Palma, he discusses how De Palma's endings usually leave no satisfactory completion or sense of finality, allowing the mystery to be preserved in the viewer's mind-- "it still has the potential to impinge upon our consciousness," he writes, adding that this is why "the end of a De Palma movie is often such a rich source of ambivalence and speculation." He then delves back into the ending of OBSESSION, and then concludes his chapter with the following paragraph, which is interesting in light of the above discussion:<br /><br />"In these moments, a crucial transformation is effected. The director who measures out his films shot-by-storyboarded-shot with no margin for spontaneity becomes joint signatory with the prankster who loves to slay an audience with a punchline, or the gaping absence of one."Geoffhttp://www.briandepalma.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-13695251417770147662011-06-05T08:43:15.816-04:002011-06-05T08:43:15.816-04:00Man, I'd love to read those drafts. You can se...Man, I'd love to read those drafts. You can see the period detail all in the film, but of course De Palma isn't someone interested in reflecting reality. He certainly has an eye for detail, but he likes to throw people off. It's funny that the biggest flaw of the film might be its lack of excess. It keeps acting like it's about to go off the rails and never does, to its detriment.Jake Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15532951308638768249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-36019391171219381312011-06-04T18:51:37.393-04:002011-06-04T18:51:37.393-04:00I haven't read the drafts in careful detail, b...I haven't read the drafts in careful detail, but at a glance Mamet's approach seems as esoteric as you'd expect, more interested in the gamesmanship between Ness and Capone (and the sideplot between Malone and his Irish counterpart) than in any "human element." He's not really into action scenes or elaborate set-pieces. De Palma brought those to the table, Connery and Charles Martin Smith brought what exists of the emotion.<br /><br />Still, I love tracing the evolution of a story through manuscripts. There's a thick wad of Prohibition-Era newsclippings in the collection, followed by an empty folder with Mamet's ideas scrawled all over the front and back of it. Then come a few "treatments" (mainly scene and story ideas), then actual drafts up to the finished script.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450775188328918558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-22613143816185041712011-06-04T18:08:03.025-04:002011-06-04T18:08:03.025-04:00Really!?? Are there more complicated scenes of emo...Really!?? Are there more complicated scenes of emotional buildup in his drafts that De Palma wound up cutting out or something...?Adam Zanziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14524618281515322239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-67625217794031002302011-06-04T16:17:26.469-04:002011-06-04T16:17:26.469-04:00Adam, we actually have Mamet's screenplay draf...Adam, we actually have Mamet's screenplay drafts and research notes for <i>The Untouchables</i> in our archives. I agree it's not his best stuff, but from the amount of detail it's apparent he wasn't phoning it in.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450775188328918558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-84354214463776401202011-06-02T21:33:32.952-04:002011-06-02T21:33:32.952-04:00I agree especially with your last point, Adam. Cos...I agree especially with your last point, Adam. Costner doesn't do anything to sell Ness, even as a stunted, self-blind lapdog who will sacrifice his ethics to protect a law he demonstrates he does not really believe in. He enforces it because it's the law, which he stands by even when he commits a number of crimes to bust Capone. Even the music sells the pithy final line, which in any other De Palma film would be the ironic punchline that brings down the house, as a completely sincere little chuckle. And I can't argue that De Palma is playing with us because Costner so fails to modulate Ness that one can only read into the literal ending and not any darker subtext.<br /><br />Like I said, I'm glad it gave De Palma a much-needed hit, but this remains easily one of my least favorite of his pictures.Jake Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15532951308638768249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-46910702651356051862011-06-02T20:24:56.456-04:002011-06-02T20:24:56.456-04:00Here is one of those rare De Palma films that I ke...Here is one of those rare De Palma films that I keep coming back to because of its sequences, not because of its story. I can respect that it was one of his more studio-oriented pictures, but, at the same time, a movie like <i>Mission to Mars</i> actually seems preferable in that department. <br /><br />Now, I agree with Geoff about De Palma's intent with the Odessa homage; what De Palma seems to be trying with <i>The Untouchables</i> is to make the most of a surprisingly banal screenplay written by one of our finest screenwriters. I don't expect Mamet to dish out "Mametspeak" with all of his screenplays, but Christ: if he could produce a restrained-yet-masterful draft of <i>The Verdict</i> for Sidney Lumet, there's no reason why he should have been taking a day off in drafting a Prohibition gangster flick for De Palma. Methinks he was too preoccupied with writing/directing <i>House of Games</i> at the time.<br /><br />I enjoy <i>The Untouchables</i>, but I'd say it's the least satisfactory of De Palma's gangster flicks (although I haven't seen <i>Wise Guys</i>). With Oliver Stone he got a <i>Scarface</i> script that was exuberant enough for his sensibilities, and with David Koepp he got a <i>Carlito's Way</i> script that was personal enough. But Mamet's <i>Untouchables</i> script is neither of these: it doesn't give you the impression that either the writer or director loved the project all that much. De Palma, like I said, makes the most of some unforgettable sequences... but the movie, as you've said here, Jake, doesn't have much of a purpose.<br /><br />To me, De Palma and Mamet missed out on a grand opportunity to explore the possibilities in Ness' transformation from a good cop to an antihero. There's got to be palpable FEELING in Ness throwing Netti off the roof, and it's got to stick with him. The movie can't just end with Ness dusting himself off, smiling and going off to have a drink, as if he's suddenly gone back to being the good cop. That's not realistic -- and, more importantly, it's not like De Palma. <br /><br />In <i>Blow Out</i>, Jack is able to eliminate a serial killer but fails to save the girl, and takes his guilt with him back into the studio. In <i>The Black Dahlia</i>, the Hartnett character murders somebody and clearly is able to exit the movie a changed person. Similarily, in <i>The Untouchables</i> there should be an added weight to Ness' dark transformation. But instead we get a likable, innocent Kevin Coster, who sometimes shows true emotion in other films (<i>JFK; A Perfect World</i>) but is just totally unconvincing here as a once-good cop who is finding his entire code of ethics unraveling.Adam Zanziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14524618281515322239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-43590221400824841472011-05-30T20:12:35.797-04:002011-05-30T20:12:35.797-04:00I completely agree with Kael; this film always fee...I completely agree with Kael; this film always feels like it's leading up to some grand De Palman climax and it never really arrives (and honestly, throwing a guy off a building almost doesn't even rate in a canon as wild as his).<br /><br />Geoff, maybe plagiarism was the wrong word, as you're right, he's not passing it off as his own. But that's actually the problem; rather than sublimate it into his own craft and work with it, it just hangs there as an obvious homage. The lead-up is suspenseful, but the actual shots of the baby falling do nothing for me because the director really doesn't do anything unique after the homage kicks in. The sequence, like the movie itself, feels like it's about to be something more, then it isn't.Jake Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15532951308638768249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-80520853934232181052011-05-29T19:41:08.342-04:002011-05-29T19:41:08.342-04:00By punchline I think Kael really meant a "sic...By punchline I think Kael really meant a "sick twist." Garcia's shot is funny and satisfying but it's not unexpected, and with De Palma you can usually count on the unexpected.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450775188328918558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-87526514494734428492011-05-29T15:21:20.918-04:002011-05-29T15:21:20.918-04:00I don't get that "lack of a punchline&quo...I don't get that "lack of a punchline" idea--Andy Garcia's gunshot while holding up the pram with his legs and then finishing the henchman's count provides an immensely satisfying punchline. I also don't get the idea that one cannot get over the "plagiarism" of this scene-- because first of all, De Palma is not trying to put anything over on anyone as far as where he got the idea for the pram on the stairs, but second of all, there is so much more going on here than just the pram on the stairs, which De Palma has made the grounding element of a brilliant suspense setpiece that is quite a variation on the Eisenstein piece.<br /><br />All that said, this is a great write-up on THE UNTOUCHABLES. I've been enjoying your pieces on De Palma's films, and am looking forward to the next one-- keep up the good work!Geoffhttp://www.briandepalma.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-494160638739613756.post-10984897387040156622011-05-29T10:05:15.368-04:002011-05-29T10:05:15.368-04:00A schizo movie. Connery is fabulous, elevates ever...A schizo movie. Connery is fabulous, elevates every scene he's in, his relationship with the Irish cop suggesting depths that the movie refuses to wade into. De Niro makes a strong entrance and a little later wields a mean baseball bat, but puzzlingly fades into the woodwork. Ness is a stiff, both in Costner's performance and Mamet's conception of the character. (Costner starred in "Bull Durham" immediately after this, and his liveliness was a shock.) The cartoon Nitti may be the biggest disappointment: I'm not a big fan of Mann's "Public Enemies," but at least that movie showed that there's a lot more to that character than sneering and leering. And you're right about the "Odessa Steps" sequence. Kael said that it lacks a punchline: You expect one, like in nearly all of De Palma's elaborate setpieces in his films, but it never does. On the other hand, I've been in that train station several times over the years, and each time I've overheard somebody in passing say, "Oh, that was in 'The Untouchables'!"Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450775188328918558noreply@blogger.com